The secret to a great Thanksgiving lies in smart preparation. In this episode, we explore everything from menu planning to the essential kitchen equipment that makes cooking this feast more manageable.
We’re joined by Sam Sifton, founding editor of New York Times Cooking and author of Thanksgiving: How to Cook It Well, who shares expert guidance on when to shop for ingredients, what to make ahead, and how to orchestrate the entire meal.
We also speak with Wirecutter kitchen-team senior staff writer Lesley Stockton, who has cooked more than 100 turkeys. She breaks down the essential roasting equipment, the gadgets you can skip, and the helpful tools that will streamline your cooking process.
CHRISTINE: From The New York Times, you’re listening to The Wirecutter Show.
CAIRA: Hey, everyone, it’s The Wirecutter Show. I’m Caira Blackwell.
CHRISTINE: I’m Christine Cyr Clisset.
ROSIE: And I’m Rosie Guerin, and we work at Wirecutter, the product-recommendation site from The New York Times.
CAIRA: Each week we bring you expert advice from our newsroom of 140 journalists, who review everyday products that will make your life better.
CHRISTINE: This episode of The Wirecutter Show is called “How to Ace Thanksgiving.”
[SOUND EFFECT] Dinner party
ROSIE: This is my first year hosting Thanksgiving.
CAIRA: Welcome to the club.
ROSIE: I’m so psyched. We used to go to my mémé and pépé’s house as kids, but now that we live farther away, my wife and I, and our kids, are developing some of our own traditions.
CAIRA: It’s a big step, and it’s nerve-racking since this is your first time.
ROSIE: I’m pumped.
CAIRA: Yeah?
CHRISTINE: Honestly, I’ve never hosted Thanksgiving. I’ve lived on the East Coast for 20 years, and so I usually am at Friendsgiving, and I’m just bringing things to friends’ houses.
CAIRA: I love that too. I come from a really big family, so usually every Thanksgiving I will help my parents host at their house down in DC, and it’s probably, like, 15 to 20 people every year, so it’s, like, a coordinated event at the Blackwell house.
ROSIE: That’s intense. Well, doing my own thing this year, being in the driver’s seat, means I have to think about all of the things, all of the things one could possibly need to do, have, and prepare to host a holiday event, particularly one like Thanksgiving, where there are lots of expectations. What are the traditions? What are we doing like we did last year? And lots of opinions on maybe how things ought to be cooked, or taste, or prepared.
CAIRA: I mean, I recommended that we skip both sweet potato recipes, and they almost rioted.
ROSIE: You were almost excommunicated? I mean, I’m worried that we don’t have the right gear. It feels like a lot to think through, and I obviously want to nail it.
CHRISTINE: Yeah, there is a lot of gear that you are told that you need to have, and some of it you really do need to have and some you don’t. But we’re so lucky, we work in a place where we have people that we can ask almost any question of, and that’s not just at Wirecutter. We work at the illustrious New York Times Company, so we can reach out far and wide. And this episode we’re going to bring on … our first guest is going to be Sam Sifton. He is the founding editor of New York Times Cooking, who has literally written the book on Thanksgiving. He’ll tell us all of his best-in-class hosting tips—some are more controversial than others—and he’s going to share how to make this holiday less stressful and more enjoyable.
CAIRA: And then later we’re going to have on Lesley Stockton, who is a longtime Wirecutter kitchen writer who has cooked over 100 turkeys—that’s basically a century worth of turkeys. She’s reviewed roasting pans, chef’s knives, skillets, and other gear you’re probably going to want to use at Thanksgiving. And she’s just going to walk us through what you absolutely need, what you really don’t, and the things that are nice but not necessary to make a great Thanksgiving meal.
ROSIE: I promise I won’t embarrass you when Sam Sifton comes in the room. But honestly, I have learned so much, so much about cooking from him and Lesley. I am just a massive fan, and she’s an absolute gem. I am so excited for this episode, I’ve got lots of learning to do.
CHRISTINE: All right, let’s dive in. After the break, Sam’s best advice for acing your Thanksgiving. We’ll be right back.
CAIRA: Welcome back to The Wirecutter Show. We are so excited to welcome Sam Sifton to the show. Sam is an assistant managing editor of The New York Times and the founding editor of New York Times Cooking, and I think it’s fair to say a Thanksgiving expert. His 2012 book, Thanksgiving: How to Cook It Well, is full of recipes, and anecdotes, and advice for how to host a great Thanksgiving.
ROSIE: Sam, we are so honored to have you on The Wirecutter Show, welcome.
SAM: I’m very excited to be here. Thanks for having me.
CHRISTINE: You have cooked so many Thanksgiving meals. Can you tell us about the most memorable Thanksgiving that you can think of? Who was there, and what did you serve?
SAM: So I have cooked a lot of Thanksgivings, and most of them really large-scale, like, a lot of people, up to 30, 35 people. And with 30, 35 people, you’re just hoping to survive. There can be amazing things or terrible things that happen, and I can remember specific emotional moments with my mom in her last year at Thanksgiving with a lot of people, that was great. I can remember my little goddaughter stabbing herself accidentally with an oyster knife and having to go to the ER.
ROSIE: She lived.
SAM: She lived. She’s fine.
CHRISTINE: To be very clear.
SAM: She’s fine. She writes with the other hand. No.
ROSIE: Dark.
SAM: She’s fine, and she’s back to opening oysters, and that’s great. So I can remember these wonderful specific instances, but to really answer your question, I have to go to Thanksgiving 2020, when we were in lockdown, and for the first time in over 20 years, it was a small Thanksgiving. It was just me, my wife, my two kids. But it was really joyful to have the full spread, to cook all day for just four people with lots of sides. The kids made pies, tons of gravy. It was just really, really nice. And to have this tiny little dollhouse table with the family all around it, and none of our friends and relatives who are usually there, was bittersweet, but it was also fantastic. My kids were in the process of going off to college and senior year in high school, and it was like we were coming to an end of something, and selfishly I felt like we were stealing time back with them, and that was a pretty special Thanksgiving.
ROSIE: That’s beautiful.
CAIRA: That’s really special.
ROSIE: I love that. What were the first Thanksgiving-related things you taught your kids how to cook?
SAM: Well, I think I taught them more principles than actual recipes. For instance, there’s no place for salad at a Thanksgiving meal. What are you doing?
CHRISTINE: This is so controversial.
ROSIE: How dare you.
SAM: What are you doing?
CAIRA: Because it’s too healthy, because it’s too easy?
SAM: Oh, no, no. It’s both healthy and easy, and delicious, but we’re here to eat turkey and a bunch of sides. You eat turkey once, maybe twice a year at home. People eat salads at lunch at their desk. Why are you bringing that vibe into Thanksgiving? That’s a problem to me. So that’s one rule I passed along to them. Another rule I passed along to them: There’s going to be a turkey.
CHRISTINE: Yeah, no chicken, no ham for you. It’s got to be turkey.
SAM: No, you can have a ham at Christmas, have a ham at Easter, have a ham whenever you want to have a ham. But the symbol, the protein symbol of the day, we decided together it’s turkey. So make the turkey.
CHRISTINE: So you have hosted so many Thanksgiving meals. I would love for you to walk us through a little bit how you go about preparing, because I think listeners are in the mindset of thinking about this big day, and what they’re going to do, and in what order. How do you prepare for Thanksgiving?
SAM: I make a list. Basically you want to be able to stage things. You don’t want to have to shop on Wednesday night for everything. I’ve done that, it’s a little hectic, but you can do it. A couple weeks out I want to be able to get my dry goods and my bottled beverages in order. Wine, brown water, plenty of—
CHRISTINE: And just to clarify, brown water is beer?
SAM: No, in this case it’s bourbon.
CHRISTINE: Oh, bourbon, okay.
CAIRA: That’s a good catch, Christine.
SAM: No, just get the things that you want to drink, you got that done. You got plenty of flour, you’ve got all the stuff that’s not going to go bad over the course of two weeks, you get that squared away. Then the weekend before, that’s when I pick up my turkeys. Notice I said “turkeys.”
CHRISTINE: Yes, multiple.
CAIRA: How many do you usually get?
SAM: Depends on how many people. A minimum of two. Oh, this is a cool hack. This is like a Wirecutter hack, this is an upgraded pick. One thing I generally do, if I’m not sure how many people we’re going to have, I have the two birds, but to supplement all this, I usually buy a bunch of turkey thighs, and I roast those off on Wednesday night before the holiday cooking begins, and then shred all of that turkey-thigh meat into a slow cooker with a gravy that I make with the drippings from those guys. And now I’ve got this turkey à la king mixture that’s just staying on warm in the Crock Pot, and that’ll save your bacon, if I can mix the metaphor, should a lot of extra people show up.
CAIRA: It’s gravy?
SAM: It’s gravy and shredded thigh meat.
CAIRA: Wow.
CHRISTINE: So is it sacrilegious if I only make turkey thighs?
SAM: Oh no, it’s fantastic. You should do that often.
ROSIE: I don’t have to make the big bird only.
SAM: No.
CHRISTINE: Solved, there we go.
SAM: Ding-ding-ding!
CAIRA: Because Rosie wasn’t planning on making a turkey this year.
ROSIE: I was going to hopefully find somebody—
SAM: Rosie, just make some thighs and call it good.
ROSIE: Done.
CHRISTINE: And then, presumably if you have some left over, you can turn that into soup or something else.
SAM: Well, definitely save the bones and turn that … turn it into gumbo. All this thing, “Oh, I’m going to make soup.” Are you? I’m going to make gumbo, and it’s going to be even better.
ROSIE: Let’s do better. Let’s do better, I love that.
CHRISTINE: So, you get those turkeys the weekend before.
SAM: I got all lost in the thigh reverie.
CHRISTINE: Yeah, it’s all right, it’s all right.
SAM: You can bring me back. I’m back on track. Okay, so now it’s Sunday, I’ve picked up these birds. I’m going to probably hit the farmers market and get the gourds, and the brussels sprouts and, like, the potatoes, lots and lots of butter. I’m 90% of the way there by Sunday. And then Tuesday, Wednesday, I can get all the other stuff that I need. And then I generally begin the cooking process on Wednesday night with the thigh concoction, and I make the cranberry sauce on Wednesday night, and then Thursday is just a rush until we’re ready to rock and roll.
CHRISTINE: Are you the pie baker, or is someone else the pie baker?
SAM: I am not the pie baker.
CHRISTINE: Okay. Is it somebody else?
SAM: The pies are not mine. We have a great crew of pie bakers, and I really look forward to eating them. This is not perhaps how most people do Thanksgiving, but the hour before the Thanksgiving feast, or the 90 minutes before the actual feast, we eat oysters and drink prosecco, because that’s who we are.
CHRISTINE: But you’re also on the coast, right? You’re near an ocean—
SAM: Yep. I’m near where the oysters live—
CHRISTINE: This probably wouldn’t be your choice in Denver or something.
SAM: No. In Denver we might eat Rocky Mountain oysters, and drink Coors, and that would be cool too. The point is that in the 90 minutes before the meal, I don’t have a big house, and I’m getting a lot of people in it, and I don’t have a huge kitchen, and I got a lot of stuff to do, so I want people outside on the sidewalk, in the yard, in the alley next door doing something that is not getting in my way but that is intensely pleasurable. And so for us, that’s oysters and bubbly wine. For other people it could be canapés and beer. We do that, then we have the feast, then we take a walk, then we eat the pies.
CAIRA: I mean, this leads me into my next question, because you have a pretty hot take. In your Thanksgiving book, you are adamant that you are anti-appetizer, hence the oysters. Why?
SAM: Two reasons. The first is, oysters don’t count. You could eat two dozen oysters, and it’s like you drank a glass of water, because that’s essentially what you did. So oysters are a cutout from the no-appetizer rule. The no-appetizer rule comes out of my feeling that I did not wake up at six in the morning on Thanksgiving Day to cook for 10 hours so that you could come to my house, eat half a pound of nuts, and then say, “I’m good. I’m not having seconds.”
CAIRA: But what time do your guests expect to eat then? Because I know at my house we intend to serve dinner at six, but really it’s not ready till nine, and people are sitting around since three—
SAM: Wow, I might—
CAIRA: So, hungry crowd.
SAM: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think you got to go head fake, that’s where the oysters come in. I’m looking for a four o’clock start, and maybe those oyster situations starts around two. They’re hard to open, it takes a long time for these people to mess around and get them—
CHRISTINE: So give them something hard, and it’s not very filling.
SAM: I love my family, I love my guests, but it’s a little bit like “You got to give the pets a toy.” You got to give them a puzzle, and they got a puzzle to mess around with, and then they’ll be really hungry when they get to the table. Secondly, it’s a lot of people. So I don’t know that I want to mess with this little appetizer situation that I put together, that I’m now going to hand out to 30 people and then take those 30 plates back, and then we’re going to do Thanksgiving. I made four, five side dishes, and any one of those could count as an appetizer. It’s all going to be on the plate. So yeah, no appetizers.
ROSIE: You know what’s funny? My family tradition … my dad is the fifth of 10. There’s a tradition where they eat Chex Mix, homemade Chex Mix on Thanksgiving, and it’s not until right in this moment is it occurring to me that maybe that was to fill some bellies so that my mémé and pépé didn’t have to make three birds—
SAM: Oh, absolutely.
ROSIE: —and 64 mashed potatoes.
SAM: Yeah, yeah. I mean, listen, I’m in a position where buying two and a half birds or three birds, that’s part of my prep. But if I found myself in a position where, geez, I got to stretch here a little bit, and I’m making one bird, there’d be a big bowl of Chex Mix on the kitchen table. There definitely would be, because Chex Mix is delicious, it is filling, you could throw some dried cranberries in there and call it seasonal, and that would be great. I make no judgments on how other people cook Thanksgiving, although I am very bossy about it. But I accept—indeed, I welcome—all the myriad of traditions that folks bring to the table.
CHRISTINE: And when you’re orchestrating the meal prep in the hours before Thanksgiving, you take the bird out, the bird is resting, how are you keeping everything warm?
SAM: So, a couple of things. Those birds can and should rest for longer than you’re probably resting them. They can sit for a while.
CHRISTINE: Like, what’s a while?
SAM: An hour. So you’ve got some time there where the bird’s just sitting and resting, and during that time stuff that’s come into the house can go into the oven, replacing it, and get warm. But you got to be creative about what you’re doing here. So a couple of things to keep in mind. One, I think it’s always a good idea to have turkey stock on the stove all day long. A) It makes the house smell nice. B) It’s really helpful to moisten things, and especially during what the restaurant folks would call “service,” when you’ve carved the bird and you’ve laid it out on your platter—now’s the time when it could start chilling a little bit or getting cold. But if you hit it with a ladle full of turkey stock before you send it out to the table, bing, bang, zoom, that’s warm. It moistens it, it’s great, it’s a can’t-miss.
The takeaway that I will give you here, if you haven’t figured it out, is: Don’t carve that bird at the table. Nobody wants to see that. You’re not Doogie Howser, you can’t do that. You’re going to take it back, show them, give them the Norman Rockwell reveal, but then let it sit for an hour, carve it, get it on the table, hit it with the warm stock. Other things that make heat in the kitchen: There’s a slow cooker, or your mom’s slow cooker, like, those can come in handy in keeping mashed potatoes warm, and keeping your turkey slop warm. Are you lucky enough to have a dishwasher? Take a look at it. See if it has a plate-warmer function, because if you can put all those plates that you’re going to put out on the table, and you can warm them somehow, there’s less chance of putting warm things on an ice-cold plate.
CHRISTINE: I am usually doing Thanksgiving in a small Brooklyn apartment, and I will sometimes bring my Instant Pot to keep mashed potatoes warm, or whatever—
SAM: Absolutely. Why wouldn’t you?
CHRISTINE: Yeah, and you can put it anywhere where there’s a plug.
SAM: That’s exactly right.
CHRISTINE: If your kitchen isn’t big enough.
CAIRA: We have a lot of people listening who are probably cooking for the very first time, and they’re really nervous about it. It’s a big pressure point. You want to impress people, you want it to taste good. Do you have any favorite crowd-pleasing dishes you’d recommend for that group of people who are trying to cook for this holiday?
SAM: Yeah. Roast turkey, mashed potatoes, cranberry sauce, gravy, and a green of some kind. Now you’re winning. I talk to a lot of people who are cooking the meal for the first time, and what I say to them is what I say to people who are cooking it for the 30th time who are nervous because now they have extra people, or it’s a new apartment, or they’re visiting their in-laws, and it’s this: Everything’s going to be fine. Everything is going to be perfectly all right. You’ve never cooked a turkey before? I bet you’ve roasted a chicken. It’s just a big chicken. These are not complicated things to do, but if you really are nervous going into it, we got plenty of time left.
Do a rehearsal, make mashed potatoes on a Thursday night next week before the holiday, because then it won’t be the first time you’ve made them. I find that people who attempt and, “Oh, I saw this new recipe in New York Times Cooking from Melissa Clark, with pomegranate seeds and za’atar, and I think it’s going to be perfect on the Thanksgiving.” And it’s a great recipe, but you’re a new cook, and you should—
CAIRA: I feel attacked.
SAM: Well, you just shouldn’t be cooking a brand-new recipe for the first time on Thanksgiving Day. So first-time cooks, let’s just keep it simple. Just lean into it and have fun.
CHRISTINE: Let’s pivot a little bit and talk about drinks. Do you have any tips on wines that you think are a pretty safe bet? Whether you’re stocking your own Thanksgiving or whether you’re bringing bottles to a Thanksgiving dinner.
SAM: I’m always bringing bottles. Here’s what I have to say about wine. There are people who know a lot about wine, really know a lot, and then there’re the rest of us. And the people who know a lot about wine, that’s a small percentage of the population. There are albino squirrels. You’re like, “Look at that squirrel. That is a white squirrel. I’ve never seen a white squirrel.” There are such a thing as albino squirrels, by the way.
CHRISTINE: I think I saw one in Park Slope.
SAM: Really? In Park Slope?
ROSIE: Absolutely terrifying.
CHRISTINE: Yeah, in Prospect Park. Yeah.
SAM: I saw one in Oberlin, Ohio, and I was freaked out. It was like a scene out of Harry Potter, and it turned out that squirrel was a sommelier. My advice is, go to the wine shop, not the wine shop with the plexiglass, the wine shop that just sells wine. And they’re going to be offering tastings all the way through the month of November, and you should go and taste a few, and find the one that hits your price point fine and that tastes good. Find the one you like and then snatch it up, like, buy a half a case or buy a full case, and it’ll go well.
CHRISTINE: How many bottles do you like to have on hand?
CAIRA: Per head.
CHRISTINE: Per head.
SAM: I worry my answer will seem aggressive.
CAIRA: Go for it.
ROSIE: How silly are things getting?
CHRISTINE: There’s no judgment.
CAIRA: Let’s get crazy.
SAM: You don’t want to run out.
CHRISTINE: Yeah, absolutely not.
SAM: Is it nuts to say two bottles per head? I don’t think it’s crazy.
CHRISTINE: I mean, you can always drink it later.
SAM: Yep. You probably have a cousin who’s going to drink it now. So again, you don’t want to run out, because you got to remember at Thanksgiving, you’re not going to change anyone’s behavior and no one’s behavior is going to change on its own.
CAIRA: I like how you also mentioned eggnog in your book. Honorable mention for me, because I always make that for my family on Thanksgiving.
SAM: Oh, that’s so great. In our family my brother makes the eggnog, and he makes these eggnogs that he brings in these huge mason jars that then can last for the whole holiday season. My daughter believes that the minute the turkey leaves the table, Christmas music can begin. And so there’s this connection between that and the eggnog. My brother’s eggnog is scary. It’s delicious, but it’s high-test.
CAIRA: Between prepping, cooking, eating, Thanksgiving creates a huge mess. I’m wondering, what’s your ideal situation for the cleanup etiquette? Some people get weird if you offer to help clean up, some people also get weird if you don’t. So how do you think guests and hosts should handle the cleanup process at Thanksgiving?
SAM: Well, there are a couple things to remember. One thing to remember is, people get weird, so they’re going to be weird about something. So that’s okay. Another thing that I think is really important—at least for me and for anyone who wishes to follow my teachings—we clean as we go. I like to clean as I go. I do not want to get to the end of the preparation, and the kitchen looks like a bomb went off.
It’s much easier for me to keep track of what I’m doing and clean as I go, in part because there’s a lot of food out there. I need that pan again, I need that measuring cup again. Nevertheless, at the end you have 30-whatever plates, you have 120 pieces of silverware, water glasses, wine glasses, there’s a lot going on. You want to just organize that and hope that there are people who want to step up and be part of that kitchen brigade to clean. If they’re not, I’ll step up and do it, I’m not going to get weird about it, but you just know that’s not their thing. Hopefully they have another thing.
ROSIE: Yeah, that’s when we’re in trouble. “You don’t have anything?”
SAM: Yeah.
CAIRA: Sam, we usually ask our guests one final question, which is: What product did you recently buy that you love? But we’re going to put a spin on it this time and ask you something a little bit different: What is your favorite side dish to cook for Thanksgiving?
SAM: There’s a recipe for my favorite side dish that is in the Thanksgiving: How to Cook It Well cookbook, and it’s for brussels sprouts. It was a recipe of my dad’s, and it wasn’t even really a recipe. It’s just, like, bacon, brussels sprouts, heavy cream. But those three ingredients combine into an ambrosial fall flavor that to me is both a taste of Thanksgiving and a connection to my dad, who’s dead. And it’s amazing to me because I love it for that reason, but my kids, who were quite young when he died, remember it as his dish too. And so, here we are, passing down a generational recipe that I hope my kids will make. And I don’t know, I’m a sentimental person when it comes to the holiday, but that’s the dish in which I feel the strongest connection to the past.
CAIRA: I love that.
ROSIE: That’s beautiful.
CAIRA: Thank you.
ROSIE: Sam, thanks so much for joining us. This was really fun.
SAM: Thank you, I had a great time. Looking forward to Thanksgiving, and hope you all enjoy it as much as I will.
CHRISTINE: Okay, I love that stock-on-the-stove idea. And it sounds like the message is, really, this isn’t the time to try a bunch of new recipes … keep it simple.
CAIRA: Yeah, unless you like oysters. Then go big.
CHRISTINE: I love oysters, but I will not be serving them for Thanksgiving. Okay, we’re gonna take a quick break, and when we come back, we’re gonna talk all about kitchen gear, with Wirecutter senior kitchen writer Lesley Stockton. What you really need to cook a turkey—and some things you might be surprised to learn you actually don’t need!
CAIRA: Be right back.
CAIRA: Welcome back to The Wirecutter Show. With us now is Lesley Stockton, who is a senior kitchen writer at Wirecutter. Lesley has over 20 years of experience cooking in professional kitchens. And she’s tested a ton of kitchen gear that can be helpful for tackling the beast that is Thanksgiving. That’s what we’re gonna talk to her about today.
CHRISTINE: Yes! But before we get to turkey gear, Lesley, I need to address something. You recently told me this really awesome detail about your work history. You’ve cooked over 100 turkeys. How is that even possible? How are you cooking that many turkeys? For those who cannot see Lesley right now, you are not 100 years old.
LESLEY: I am not, no. I started my career in the restaurant, hospitality. So one of my earlier jobs was, I was a cook in a hotel, and so we did a lot of turkey roasting in the hotel for buffets, and then I went to Martha Stewart. That’s when … when you get assigned the Thanksgiving story … let me paint you a picture. It’s June, it’s warm. You want to go to the beach, but your mind is in November. And so, between developing the recipe for the turkey, and someone testing that recipe, and the shoot, because we styled the food for our stories, I mean, that’s, I don’t know, 10 to 15 turkeys. And then by the time Thanksgiving rolls around, I had to do it all over again. And let me tell you, after all that turkey roasting in June, you don’t want it. You don’t want it, even though I love everything on that table.
So Thanksgiving, I’d have all these people around my table, and they would be eating, like, “Oh my God, this is amazing. This is amazing. Why aren’t you eating?” And I would just be sitting there, drinking wine, like, “I’m just waiting for pie, y’all.”
CAIRA: So, Lesley, we have a lot of listeners who are probably cooking turkeys for the first time or maybe trying to perfect their cooking methods, and that can be so intimidating. They might feel like they need a lot of stuff, like a roasting pan, a high-tech thermometer, an electric meat carver—there’s just a lot of stuff marketed as essential at this time of year. So we want to hear it directly from you, Lesley: What do you think people really need to make a great turkey?
LESLEY: Well, you need a vessel to put that turkey in, like a roasting pan. You can get away with putting it on a baking sheet, but it’s not fun to maneuver a turkey on a low-sided, wide baking sheet. It’s like a martini glass.
CAIRA: Spillage. Built to spill.
CHRISTINE: And with hot fat in it, that’s probably not a good move.
LESLEY: It’s built to spill.
CHRISTINE: Well, what about … I don’t want to have a roasting pan, because I don’t have a big enough kitchen to store it all year long. There are those roasting pans that they have at grocery stores that are aluminum. Are those okay to use?
LESLEY: Yes, 100%. The only thing you can’t do in those is make the gravy on the stovetop. You have to scrape all the drippings into something else to make your gravy.
CAIRA: What about … do you need an electric carving knife?
LESLEY: You do not. You just need a sharp knife. I cut up my entire turkey with Wirecutter’s pick, the MAC MTH-80.
CHRISTINE: I love that knife, by the way. It’s a good knife.
LESLEY: It’s so good.
CHRISTINE: So just, like, a sharp chef’s knife—you don’t necessarily need a carving set or something like that.
LESLEY: No, no. I mean, a chef’s knife will work for that too, I promise.
CAIRA: Lovely. And lastly, I have this big question about a meat thermometer. I’ve always wanted to get, you know, the Meater? It’s a very fancy digital thermometer that’ll tell you exactly how much time that your meat needs to cook, and at what temperature.
LESLEY: How does it know?
CAIRA: Magic?
ROSIE: It’ll tell you your turkey’s BMI.
CAIRA: It’s supposedly, like, it’s … you put in the weight, and then it gives you the exact time and heat that you need to cook it perfectly. But do you really need something that fancy when you need to—
LESLEY: No. Not when you have a search engine at your fingertips.
CAIRA: But do you recommend that people get a thermometer at all?
LESLEY: Yes. I think the ThermoPop, which is, I don’t know. Is it $30?
CHRISTINE: Yeah, something around $30.
LESLEY: I think it’s a great investment. You really want a meat thermometer, because you want your turkey fully cooked, because it’s a health hazard if it’s not. And also, undercooked thigh meat to me is one of the worst sensations.
CHRISTINE: Yeah, it’s like chewy and gross.
LESLEY: Oh, and slimy.
CAIRA: A little slimy.
LESLEY: Yeah. So it’s really good to have a meat thermometer for that reason. And the USDA says that your turkey should be cooked to 165 degrees internally. And what they mean by internal temp is that the center of the thickest muscle should be 165, and the breast is going to cook faster than the thigh, which is why you want to take the temperature from the thickest part of the thigh. And the thickest part of the thigh is, if you’re looking at the turkey and the breasts are up, you stick the probe of the thermometer through that little crevice where the thigh meets the breast, and you angle it out a little bit. Avoid the bone—and don’t worry about it, you can do this a few times. It’s okay. Taking the temp from that inside part is really crucial, because if it’s undercooked, that’s the part that will be undercooked, not the part of the thigh on the outside. Because that’s been exposed to the heat for two-plus hours.
CAIRA: I just don’t really understand—if you have the space in your oven, or if you have a roasting pan large enough, why wouldn’t you spatchcock a turkey? Spatchcocking is, like, when you pull the spine out, and then you flatten the bird so it all cooks evenly. Why don’t more recipes call for that?
LESLEY: Okay, one, spatchcocking a turkey is a pain in the butt. It’s not as easy as spatchcocking a chicken. I mean, it’s bigger—
ROSIE: It sounds violent.
LESLEY: Have you ever tried cutting the spine out of a turkey?
CAIRA: Get a really good knife.
LESLEY: No, do not do that to your knife.
CAIRA: No?
LESLEY: Uh-uh.
CAIRA: So what, do I need scissors? Kitchen scissors?
LESLEY: Yeah, if you can make it work in that with those turkey bones—
CHRISTINE: Or have your butcher do it.
LESLEY: Or have your butcher do it, because they have a band saw.
CAIRA: Okay. So it’s a pain in the butt, that’s why you wouldn’t do it.
LESLEY: Right. And also, it’s really easy to cook the turkey the way I cook a turkey.
CAIRA: Which is roasting it.
LESLEY: Which is just putting it in the oven and forgetting she exists for a couple of hours.
CHRISTINE: So a little neglect is good here.
LESLEY: A lot of neglect.
ROSIE: Like a couple glasses of wine, just give it some time.
LESLEY: Yeah.
ROSIE: So if you’re going into this, you want a roasting pan. If you don’t have a roasting pan, because you’re going to use it maybe once a year, grab an aluminum-foil one, and you want a thermometer. You want a meat thermometer or an instant-read thermometer, one or the other.
LESLEY: Exactly.
CAIRA: And a nice carving knife.
LESLEY: And a nice carving knife.
CAIRA: And a box of salt.
LESLEY: The old box of salt.
CAIRA: Always.
CHRISTINE: Okay. So, Lesley, I wanna know if there is any gear that people do not need. I know you mentioned the electric carving knife. Is there anything else?
LESLEY: Yeah. You don’t need a baster.
CHRISTINE: Ooh, hot take.
CAIRA: Hot take.
LESLEY: Yeah.
CAIRA: Jinx.
LESLEY: You don’t need it. There’s no reason.
CHRISTINE: Why? I mean, you want to keep your bird moist—
LESLEY: Why would I want to re-wet the skin that I’m trying to render and get crisp?
CAIRA: Oh, okay. Good point.
LESLEY: Let that skin dry out.
CHRISTINE: No baster. Get rid of that baster.
LESLEY: You don’t need it.
CHRISTINE: Don’t need it.
CAIRA: So then, what are things that are nice to have but definitely not necessary?
LESLEY: Nice to have. Gas grill is really nice to have if you’re really limited with oven space; you can cook your turkey on the gas grill.
CHRISTINE: Outside.
LESLEY: Obviously outside. We’re not bringing that thing inside. Weber has step-by-step instructions, but if you have a three-burner grill, you turn on the outside burners, you leave the middle burner off, you put a pan on the … what they call the Flavorizer bars, to collect those drippings, because again, gravy.
CHRISTINE: And the advantage of this is, you free up your oven so you can make all the sides. And if you have friends coming over, and they can do their sides and everything, and then you’ve got somebody outside manning the turkey—
LESLEY: Right.
CHRISTINE: —roasting operation. Okay, I like that.
LESLEY: And if you have a grill, you probably have a set of grilling tools. And they’re great to use to transfer a turkey from the roasting pan to the cutting board. What I do is, I shove some tongs up the cavity on the leg end, on the business end—
CHRISTINE: On the backside, yeah.
LESLEY: On the backside. And then I scoop a very large spatula supporting the neck end. And it’s a very safe way to transfer the turkey from the roasting pan to the cutting board. Now, here’s a little expert tip. There is some juice that has accumulated inside the cavity, and you want that involved in your gravy-making. So I just tilt up with the spatula on the neck end, and just gently let those juices run out into the pan. Then you have more juices to make the gravy with.
CHRISTINE: Ooh, this is a really good tip—
LESLEY: It’s a hot tip.
CHRISTINE: I feel like I’ll use this. And if you don’t happen to have grill tools, could you do this with maybe tongs or something in your kitchen?
LESLEY: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s what I use, because I don’t have a set of grill tools, but I do have 12-inch tongs, and I have a giant fish spatula that’s made for the grill.
CHRISTINE: Just to recap, the essentials that you really, really want to have are: You want to have a roasting pan, whether it’s a store-bought, triple-layered aluminum pan, or whether you’re investing in a nice pan that you’re going to use over and over. You should have some kind of sharp knife, like a chef’s knife. You want that instant-read thermometer, because you got to have that to make sure that your bird is done.
LESLEY: And it’s good year-round.
CHRISTINE: Right. And the things that you really can skip are a turkey baster and the little mini-chainsaw electric cutter. Right? No need for that.
LESLEY: Right.
CHRISTINE: And then the things that you might want to have that are nice to have, if you’ve got a grill, think about using your three-burner grill outside to cook the turkey if you are trying to free up space in your kitchen, and either the grill tools or tongs to help you move the turkey.
LESLEY: Right.
CHRISTINE: Lesley, thank you so much. This has been so fun.
LESLEY: Thank you for having me. I love being here.
CAIRA: Wow, I feel like I’ve learned so much. I’m actually excited for Thanksgiving this year, you guys.
CHRISTINE: I almost want to just stay home and make it myself, but I still would like some invitations if anyone’s listening.
ROSIE: Specifically if Sam Sifton can still hear me.
CHRISTINE: Yeah, I mean specifically Sam. No.
ROSIE: What a dream.
CAIRA: What did you guys take away from that?
CHRISTINE: There were so many things, it’s hard to choose, but I think that the thing that was really new for me is that tip that Lesley had about using some grill tools or tongs that you have in your kitchen to transfer the turkey from the roasting pan over to a cutting board. I feel like I would actually use that even for a large chicken. It’s always so awkward. That was a really great takeaway for me.
CAIRA: That’s a good one. For me, aim to serve dinner earlier. No, but really, on the subject of doing things earlier, what I took away from Sam is that you can really start shopping for Thanksgiving up to two weeks ahead.
CHRISTINE: I like that one.
ROSIE: For me, I am clinging to Sam’s idea around making turkey thighs instead of a whole bird. I think that might be where I start this year. And also not trying to be too ambitious, not trying to make something I’ve never seen or heard about until the day before Thanksgiving, and then trying to tackle that on the big day while I’m also juggling hosting, and perfecting the eggnog, and the spiced mulled wine, and all of that. So, keep it simple.
CHRISTINE: That’s right.
ROSIE: And it’ll all be fine.
CAIRA: Everything will be fine. It’s going to be great, yeah.
ROSIE: Well, that’s it for us this week. If you want to find out more about Wirecutter’s coverage, or if you want to check out any of the products that Lesley recommended, go to nytimes.com/wirecutter, or find a link in the show notes. Special thanks this week to Sam Sifton and Lesley Stockton. That is it for us, happy holiday season.
CHRISTINE: Happy holidays.
CAIRA: Happy holidays.
ROSIE: The Wirecutter Show is executive produced by me, Rosie Guerin, and produced by Abigail Keel. Editing by Abigail Keel, engineering support from Maddy Masiello and Nick Pitman. Today’s episode was mixed by Catherine Anderson. Original music by Dan Powell, Marion Lozano, Elisheba Ittoop and Diane Wong. Wirecutter’s deputy publisher and interim general manager is Cliff Levy. Ben Frumin is Wirecutter’s editor-in-chief.
CHRISTINE: I’m Christine Cyr Clisset.
CAIRA: I’m Caira Blackwell.
ROSIE: And I’m Rosie Guerin, thank you for listening.
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